Have you been stuck wondering what you can do to grow your social media following? What platforms are even worth your time? Have you been pouring your heart and soul into your content only to end up with less than ten likes? Well, marketing your business online takes more (or less!) than posting multiple times on different channels. Instead, it’s really about starting small and finding ways to build your marketing ecosystem that earn the attention and trust of your audience.
Jamie Ratermann, CEO and holistic business coach, joins us to share her expert insights on the power of social media marketing. She talks about the top channels you can use, what you can do to make people say yes, and how you can build your business up while enjoying the process. Jamie also shares her top predictions for social media marketing in 2023.
If you’re an entrepreneur looking to build your business to greater heights using social media marketing, this episode is for you!
👂 Three reasons why you should listen to the full episode:
We break down just how important social media marketing is in growing your business and what platforms you should focus on.
Find out how to gain your audience’s trust by using the right platforms the right way.
Learn how to start small and build your marketing ecosystem one step at a time.
📘 Resources
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Limitless with Jamie Ratermann
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Tribes by Seth Godin
Desire Map by Danielle Laporte
Mating in Captivity by Esther Perel
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Access other courses from Diana Davis Creative
🎧 Episode Highlights
[00:05:37] Jamie’s Entrepreneurship Journey
Jamie is a holistic business coach. She has been working in marketing for over 12 years.
Tune in to the episode to learn how Jamie and Diana met and became friends and accountability buddies.
Jamie worked in corporate marketing for over six years before quitting to pursue her own business.
Her coaching career is a lifelong process of fine-tuning how she is building her health and wealth.
Jamie has learned to get rid of and shed what’s no longer working for her. It’s about surrounding yourself with people and an environment that can expand your horizons.
[00:21:27] The Importance of Social Media in Building Your Business
Social media is important for businesses to connect with their audience.
On average, it takes seven to twelve touch points before customers trust you.
Your social media pages play a big role in establishing your credibility. When you have an online presence, people can check your business out.
Your social media channels can serve as your portfolio or a landing pad for your customers. When people become interested in your offers, they can binge the content available on your pages.
[00:26:15] Jamie: “It doesn’t always have to be this feeling of a hustle to post all the time and a rat race. It’s literally about how well can you represent your brand.”
[00:27:54] Cultivating Your Marketing Ecosystem
Your marketing ecosystem is the online empire of content you build to gain your audience’s trust.
This ecosystem includes your website, email, and social media channels, which play the biggest portion in this pipeline.
Use your socials to understand your audience. When you get what they like and what they respond to, use that to bring them in further.
It’s perfectly fine to repurpose content on different channels. It gives people a chance to see what you offer when they’re ready to digest that info.
Tune in to the episode to gain more insight into building your marketing ecosystem!
[00:31:55] Jamie: “Make sure people know you and know what you’re about so that when they see your brand, they know exactly what they’re going to get from you. That they know exactly why they should trust you.”
[00:37:46] The Top 2023 Social Media Marketing Predictions
Jamie predicts the top three marketing channels for 2023 will be YouTube shorts, TikTok, and Instagram.
You don’t need glaringly different content strategies for these channels. Instead, you just have to know what plays well for your audience.
Montages, day-in-the-life videos, and inspiring posts do great on Instagram Reels. Tips and tricks work best on YouTube shorts. TikTok is the most informal of the three.
This doesn’t mean you should ignore other sites. LinkedIn can do wonders for you, while Facebook seems to be on the rise again.
[00:49:24] Call to Action: The When, Why, and How
After scrolling for a day, you probably won’t remember the brands you’ve seen unless they did something so catchy.
Likewise, social media users rarely interact with posts if they’re not told to.
Businesses can leverage the CTA to change this. With an easy and simple call to action, you can get people to interact with your posts.
Your CTA doesn’t have to be this big, existential hook. It can be something as simple as “Leave a double-tap if…” or “Save this video if…”
[00:59:49] Starting Small and Building Your Way Up
Posting on social media can help you, but you don’t have to go big right away.
You can use different social media channels, but you don’t have to use them all. Start with two channels, stick to those, and be consistent.
Using every channel at once can exhaust you, resulting in a decrease or a complete stop of your posts.
You don’t have to be intense about your marketing goals. Instead, start small and build your way up. Think of the process as just how humans grow.
[01:01:58] Jamie: “It's consistency over intensity; don't try to be so intense about these goals. Be able to say ‘I know that this month, I hit one time a week, maybe I hit one and a half times a week next month. And I'm only going to grow from this because this is a long game.’”
👩 About Jamie
Jamie Ratermann is a holistic business coach and CEO of Jamie Ratermann Coaching & Consulting. She has been in the marketing industry for over 12 years, where she started on the corporate scene and worked with big brands like TripAdvisor and a few TEDx speakers. Jamie specializes in brand social media marketing and has helped over 50 brands flourish and thrive in the online arena. As a holistic business coach, Jamie also has a certification in health coaching.
😍 Enjoyed this Podcast on the Power of Social Media?
Social media really does rule the world nowadays. Who would have thought that these mundane, everyday apps can be catapults for entrepreneurs?
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Transcript
Jamie Ratermann: I recently had a client that I was considering in one of my programs saying, “I haven't posted in months, and I still get clients.” And we'd look looked at it, and it was her bio. It was her top three posts. It doesn't always have to be like this feeling of like a hustle to post all the time and a rat race. It's literally about: how well can you represent your brand?
Diana Davis: Welcome to Pollen, the ultimate podcast for helping creative entrepreneurs like you build the business and life of their dreams. Want to finally make money doing what you love, work with your dream clients, and turn your creative gifts into a thriving business? I'm your host, Diana Davis — business coach, Gemini, manifesting generator, matcha enthusiast, and full-time nomad. My mission? To empower you to unleash your creative gifts and build a career and life that fills you with passion.
Here's the deal. I went from creating a six-figure photography business to helping amazing creative souls like you build your own empires. So I've been there. I get it. Whether you're an artist, designer, writer, yogi, or anything in between, this podcast is your treasure trove of inspiration. So grab your favorite notebook, maybe a matcha, and let's embark on this incredible adventure.
Hi, Pollen! Welcome to our first guest episode of this season with one of my best friends in the entire world, Jamie Ratermann. I am so excited to bring this episode to you. We actually recorded it a while ago, so it's been a long time coming and it is gold. I actually re-listened to it and just smiled the entire time. We are goofballs together. We are— just picture this episode like drinking wine on the couch with us, which I think I mentioned.
She is a content strategist, a professional marketer, just an amazing holistic business coach and I can't wait for you to learn from her and just get a kick out of our conversation. She helps rebellious entrepreneurs grow their businesses by combining meaningful marketing and mindset and health practices. So she actually has a health coaching certification along with her business coaching stuff. She has 12 years under her belt, 50 plus brands she's worked for, including TripAdvisor and TEDx speakers.
She loves to help entrepreneurs not only use social media, but build their businesses and love the process, which is really in line with what I do. So she's going to just really complement everything that you know and love here on the Pollen podcast. This is more of an expert episode. In season one, we really covered like the winding path of different entrepreneurs. Of course, we're going to talk about her story a bit, but she's really here to deliver marketing tips, social media tips, and just a vibe. So please enjoy.
I also want to remind you that we have things going on and ways for you to plug in here at DDC. So Camp Clarity starts the 29th of June, which if you're listening to this right when it comes out, it literally is tomorrow. It's not too late to jump into that round, even if it's a week later, and you're like “Oh shit, I totally missed it.” You still have time to jump in.
This is Camp Clarity 2.0. We have redone the modules, the branding, all of it. You're gonna get it all. This is such a great time to plug into this community. More on that in the show notes. You can read all about it, there's an amazing FAQ section on the camp clarity webpage.
Also, Ascend will be happening later this summer. If you are an entrepreneur who already has a business, you're thriving, but you're wanting to expand and grow, Ascend is for you. It's a mastermind/one-on-one hybrid. Also, we can talk more about that, feel free to DM me with any questions. There's a waitlist for that you can hop on.
We are also really amped about hosting retreats. We've done two so far: one in Colorado, one in Greece. They were the most epic things I've ever hosted or been a part of. So we are planning Ecuador in February of 2024, as well as other locations and times in 2024. We're planning on maybe doing three. So you all have options just in case the dates don't work for you. It is incredible being in real life with this community. I can't say enough good things about it.
We have a couple of retreat episodes if you go back to season one, where you can hear people on the retreat live and their feedback from it. So jump on the waitlist for that, those spots will go fast. Otherwise, we are here, be on the email list, be on the podcast, tune in, and make sure you know what's going on. We always have things for you to plug into.
Pollen, we have a gem guest expert episode today. One of my best friends in the world, Jamie Ratermann. Hello. Hi, how are you?
Jamie: Hi, I'm so happy to finally be here! I'm ready to pollinate!
Diana: Ready to pollinate, yay! You all are in for a treat because we are fucking goofballs together, and this is gonna be just like hanging out on a couch with us drinking a good Malbec or something probably, honestly to be real, like a spicy margarita because we're basic bitches.
Jamie: Mezcal margarita, that makes me different.
Diana: Yes, it does make both of us different. But yes, so Jamie and I, just to give a little backstory, met through The Financial Gym, which is something I still use as a financial trainer. But it was a Financial Gym, financial advising kind of startup in New York City. And we went to a Peloton class right? And had like a sweaty happy hour afterwards. So we saw each other in like our best form, and then just started hanging out.
Jamie: So I was eating pizza, definitely worrying about if I needed to put like three layers of deodorant when I met new people, but you seem to like me. So it felt okay.
Diana: And what's wild, just as far as like what we're going to talk about today, which let's state that — we're going to tell the background story a little bit, but this is really an expert episode on social media, the top channels to use this year, how to make your social media ecosystem work for you, how many times it takes people to finally say yes, like how many touch points and things like that.
So as an example, you and I met at this Peloton class, then we kind of like fizzled out for a minute, right? We finally got brunch together. I think maybe it was one before the other. But we did like a co-working day. And then a lot of stuff happened in your world where, you know, you kind of had to go silent for, I don't know, six months at least.
Jamie: Well, well with our relationship. Yeah, six months, but we co-worked, and then unfortunately my dad had passed away. So I was like a full two months of doing the bare minimum in my business, the idea of continuing to build a relationship with you as if like that had to be on pause for that time.
Diana: Yeah, and sort of like reading the room just like you do with clients or with anybody like, I wasn't about to go, “Hey, Jamie, how's it going? How can I help?” You barely know me. I'm sure you don't have any people in your life that, you know, are inundating you with questions right now, you know. It was like “o, I'm going to take a step back, let you know that I care and also give you as much space as you need. And we're not going to force this, right.
Then we finally started having brunch again. And then we were both like kind of on the Upper East Side or Uptown New York, we’ll call it, and able to really get together and just build that relationship. And then COVID hit, so we became like COVID buddies in Central Park, where we would walk to Central Park and do that. And now we literally have a call weekly, which we just got off of to catch up as friends, to catch up as business colleagues, because we have pretty similar businesses that just kind of parallel each other a bit.
We've built this beautiful relationship, and I've been on your podcast, and now you're on mine. So I say all of that just in terms of realizing how a relationship grows. And even the masterclass I'm about to teach on Thursday, which, if you're listening to this, it already happened but you can get the replay. It's all about attraction, and like dream clients and how we date them and how we build relationships with them. And spoiler alert, it's not about getting down on one knee the minute you meet somebody.
It's about the wink and the buying them coffee and you know, being interested in what they're doing with their life and things like that. So I'm super stoked to have you finally, stoked for you to be here, stoked for you to give all the juicy info. So why don't you tell us who you are and what you do?
Jamie: Why hello, I can't wait to talk about dating clients because it's a lovely way to talk about… Even to, I think that's something, when we're even talking about content planning, but I digress. Hi, all of, do you have a name for your pollinators?
Diana: Pollinators? Yeah, I like that.
Jamie: Hello, Pollen listeners. I'm Jamie. I am a holistic business coach. I have been in marketing for over 12 years now. So my specialty is in brand social media marketing, started on the corporate end of things, working for big brands like TripAdvisor, had a couple of TEDx speakers I worked for when I started my accidental enterpreneurship journey and then it's going on for years. I also have a health coach certification — so mindset, really understanding how your brain works, I geek out on that. Behavior also plays really a big role in marketing.
I combined all of those things into programs, into content planning, into in general, letting you live your life in a healthy and wealthy way. That is my goal. And that's also what my podcast Limitless is all about too.
Diana: Healthy and wealthy. I love it. I love it.
Jamie: Healthy and wealthy.
Diana: Good, so good. So that kind of sums up a little bit of where you came from what you did a little bit of your winding road, right? Of literally being a trip advisor to now being a full-time coach, which even when I met you is not a thing. And tell them what made us friends. You always say the story when we, what question, or what was the thing that I kind of prompted it at Financial Gym, do you remember, about the pricing?
Jamie: Oh, yes. I told her my consulting prices at the time, I was a consultant for a couple of places and I told her my consulting price and she was like, “Are you kidding me?” It was a very quick like, “You could double that. You could even triple that.” I started with like, “Oh my gosh,” but just the power of accountability right from the get go. Just being able to be open about wages and cost and different things like that. Keeping it to yourself can absolutely be detrimental. So I would definitely say my prices definitely got a lot higher there after that. And you know, beautiful beginning with health and wealth from the get-go.
Diana: Yeah, absolutely. We're pushers, pushers of each other, which I love. Healthy and wealthy. Love it. Love it. Love it. Okay, so is there anything that you would say, you know, were really big pivots in your story, places you never thought you would be like, where were you? What was your mindset when you were just moving to New York from Ohio and trying to make it here to now?
Jamie: Totally. So in retrospect, I realized that I actually am very driven by, I was driven by things that didn't make sense. I can tell you that much. Because like, whenever I was like high school, I was like, I'm moving to New York City. And then just to give a reference of that, we and Diana have a similar background where I graduated class of 52 people, but I was like, “Okay, what's my path to New York?” And I took chose a journalism school. And I love journalism, but I got a marketing minor.
Turns out, that's what needed to go all the way through. And then I did this crazy thing and started a magazine while I was there, and like, because it's gonna get me to New York City. It was like all these things I was gonna put in place. And even with all of that I moved. I moved to New York without a job, mostly because I was told over and over again, I had to have a New York City address if anyone would take me seriously. Yeah, first-time hire.
I still remember to this day the look on my mother's face. I was like, “The tickets have been booked.” “You're not going.” “The tickets have been booked.” And I like crashed on someone's couch for the first month. I worked at Victoria's Secret for three weeks. While I was interviewing for jobs, I learned a lot.
Diana: You learned a lot from life school. It’s life school.
Jamie: Oh my gosh. But then, you know, between Henri Bendel and TripAdvisor, I worked for six plus years in the corporate side of things. And I loved it. I love, I enjoyed being able to work for the bigger brands, but I would say, while my corporate life was something that taught me a lot about skills and understanding, I also burnt myself out.
The winding road of all of this is that I left the corporate world because I was working 80 plus hour weeks, begging for raises, begging for budget, begging for support in any way, shape, or form and kind of just not feeling valued whatsoever. In general, it was like always “You did your job.” And I'm like, “I tripled— are you kidding me?”
There was all of those moments where I just like, felt like I had such proving energy and I feel like that comes up so often even now with launches and talking to clients like that, let's release this proving energy and be who we want to be, but I left without a job again, like I left.
I was like I'm gonna just leave and I started to apply to new jobs and it was the same situation, where they're like, what's the HR branded tools that people say? Like, “You are a highly self-motivated team, and you get to learn all like all of the skills with the help of our interns,” or something, it was like always like that.
I'm like, so you're not giving me a budget, you're just gonna make me like work my tail off again. I have to prove the value of social, which was always a part of that. But I think the biggest thing was when I got that opportunity was that once I jumped into that, people were like, “Hey, I have people who you can help.” And that was like the road to having some TEDx speakers, some women entrepreneurs, and it seems like now looking back, which I did, again, I didn't know at the time, I just kept realizing what I liked most. And then jobs just kept morphing.
I got rid of this ship that I didn't like. I think, even now, four years into coaching, I realized that each year, I get rid of things I don't like that I did the year before. And it's like this lifelong fine-tuning of how I'm building my wealth, or how I'm building my day-to-day, which I am obsessed with.
Diana: Yeah, it's just as important to know what you don't want.
Jamie: Totally, surely and even to, I think, one last thing, whenever I talk about this winding journey is that, like, I did leave corporate. I did leave the 80-hour workweeks, but I still burnt myself out. I still pushed myself to, I love to use the story that I was doing content for many channels.
I've always been a multi-channel creator for six brands at a time, and I was working my tail off yet again. And, you know, I wanted to see it as my dad's legacy. Whenever I did lose him. It'll be four years ago in March. It was a nice little wake-up call going like “I can't wait for things to be right. Or I can't wait for things to be healthy.” It's like a practice what you preach and preach what you practice at the same time, like this journey of how can I have more ease? How can I believe in myself? How can I not re-subscribe to the hustle when I feel like I'm low on cash, or I want to make this big goal, that type of thing?
I think there's such a longevity… essence. But it's not always easy to get rid of that hustle culture.
Diana: Oh my god, it's so ingrained. There's so much societal… I feel like our nervous system, like I can close my eyes and see it glowing just being caked with societal cement, you know? And we just have to like keep loosening it back up and really tapping into ourself and what we actually want and what we actually believe, versus what everyone is telling us to believe.
Because even traveling the world, you go to different cultures, and they're like, “Y'all Americans fucking work way too much. Y'all are crazy over there.” They also don't say “y'all,” by the way, in France, they don't say y'all. But it's true. It's like, wow, if we get out of our bubble and we start asking questions, even the question, like you said, of, “What do I want to keep? What don't I want to keep? What do I want to shed here? What's not working?”
Even shedding the stuff of “you have to have a job before you make a big move.” It's like, “but do I trust myself that I can make it work?” Yeah. So let me trust that versus what society is telling me. And the same thing, we have such parallel paths, right? Like, I moved to New York without a job and a plan to, and honestly, when a fire is lit under your ass, you're gonna make it fucking happen if you're that type of person. And that's, I think, the difference of a lot of people being successful or not.
It's like, are you the couch potato type who wants it done for you? Or are you going to do it for yourself? Because it's not going to be handed to you. So get up off the fucking couch and go make it happen. It's not that hard.
Jamie: I mean, absolutely. I think there's a side of it, though, is that there's two things that came to mind is that, who you surround yourself with. It feels so trite to say it at this point, but who you surround yourself with absolutely creates your reality because I will absolutely say I had no entrepreneur friends when I was in corporate. I think even one of my friends like, “I like feel like you could launch your own business.” And she wasn't somebody who was in entrepreneurship. “I just feel like you have the ability to do that.”
I remember full-blown laughing in the middle of Just Salad going like “No, never, what, are you talking about? Are you crazy?? Like, yeah, I have to, I have to do it this way. And then you just have one person with a different perspective. And I think that was part of it, even my draw of getting to New York City was that you know, I will absolutely say that living in a small town, people do a lot for you and want to see you thrive but they all have grown up the same way.
They go to the same church, they go to the same restaurants, only had three and then four bars, you know. They were not going to get any, yeah, we're not going to get a new perspective until we like break out of the bubble. And I've thankfully met so many different people from different walks of life in New York City. That's what I love about it.
I will think that this is the way the world is, then I meet one person that tells me “you're crazy. No one lives that way.” And I'm like, “I have.” It's just that it's really interesting that way, and I forget what the other thing I was gonna say, but we'll come back. But it's really about the people you have around you and the environment you create, either creates limits, or expands, an expander for you.
Diana: Yeah, hence, a lot of shedding. Like, what do you want? What do you not want? Like this year for me, 2022, it is now 2023, thank God. But 2022 was a year of shedding. It was like, this relationship doesn't work for me. This friendship doesn't work for me. This town doesn't work for me. This lifestyle doesn't work for me. So what do I want? I'm not sure. But we're gonna go towards the things that lead me to that, the breadcrumbs, right?
We're gonna start shedding those beliefs, those expectations, all of it, and see where we land. Love it. What a journey for both of us so far, and I'm so grateful to be on it with you. Let's dig into your expertise. We're gonna let Jamie nerd out here. Yeah. And my first question is, is social media actually important to build a business?
Jamie: I love this question. And yes. And hell yeah. So I think the quick answer off the top of my head is that, you know, whenever we're thinking about different levels of marketing, a lot of people like to go like, “Well, referrals are pretty much how I get all my business,” like somebody will say. I hear that a lot. That's fantastic. Like, that's absolutely amazing that referrals bring in a lot of business for you because it makes sense.
I'll talk about this a little bit when it comes to like creating a marketing ecosystem. But whenever you're thinking about how much things cost in marketing, you want to lower your touchpoints. You want people to interact with you less so that you can make money off of that. And that's the goal. So on average, a normal person will take seven to 12 touch points, meaning they interact with your email, your social, someone refers them, they see you in an ad, they read a blog post.
In general, if they see all these things, they start to trust you. It takes seven to 12 times for someone to begin to trust you. Where referrals or word of mouth is something that will bring that down to like a two to five, is usually the data point. Two to five touch points before they say yes, if someone refers them, so that stamp of approval is always going to be helpful. But where do they look first?
According to data, they go to your website and your Instagram. And I absolutely believe that that's going to turn into TikTok and YouTube because Instagram’s losing its importance. But the idea here is that these social sites are such a big part of how we see people for credibility, aside from lead generation, aside from communication. So like just starting there for sure.
If you are kind of… If you don't have a social media, they go, “Are you real? Are you, is this a real business? Or is it just something else?” I'm planning my wedding, which is at the end of next year. And some of the DJs don't have Instagram and I'm like, “I don't know you. So I don't think this is, I have to see something because I don't… I'm giving your money away, I want to get to know you.” And I think social media has provided the most advantageous place for that.
Diana: Totally. I just want to not freak you out. But it's the end of this year, your wedding. Also, I agree with you. I teach a lot specifically just on Instagram because I think it's a great place for personal brands. I think it's a place for community. It's the most community-esque platform, in my opinion that there is. Totally fair to give your consensus on that. So I specialize a lot in Instagram, not specifically on the tech side, but more like the interactive side, how to show up the confident side, the authenticity side.
But I always tell people like, it is so possible to get clients solely off of Instagram. If you have the right keywords in your bio, if you know how you're showing up, hashtags, etc., all these simple little strategies. I had a client the other day that said, “Oh my god I finally, I got a client because she searched Denver nutritionist in the search bar,” and I'm like “Yes.” Like I used to get so many clients just by people typing in “NYC photographer.”
Yes, you can. I get clients directly from a social media platform because there are so many people out there who are like, “Oh, I've never gotten a client from Instagram.” But what you're saying is, when you have someone who is checking you out from a different pipeline, whether it's word of mouth, or whether it's, they saw you at a networking event, or whatever, and you don't have some sort of portfolio or landing pad for them to go binge the fuck out of your content, that's doing a disservice. Right?
Yes, we can get clients totally organically off of Instagram. But it is just as important to still have an Instagram so that people can land on it when they do want to land on something.
Jamie: Absolutely, absolutely. Yeah, the idea is that businesses have never had this opportunity before social media before, where they get to show their credibility. And I even just recently had a client that was considering one of my programs, saying like, “I haven't posted in months, and I still get clients,” and we'd look looked at it. And it was her bio, it was her top three posts. It doesn't always have to be like this feeling of a hustle to post all the time and a rat race.
It's literally about how well can you represent your brand. And you can do it on Instagram, you can do it elsewhere. But we look there, even if it doesn't, you can't they don't say “Oh, I came through Instagram,” like, “Oh, I came through a website” or “Somebody told me.” I think that at the end of the day is that we look at all of it. Just think of your own behavior when you're considering a new purchase. You know that you Google it, you know that you check the gram, if they have a brand, a side or a vibe that you like before you even pop on and decide that you're gonna add something to the cart.
Diana: Totally. Yeah. And last thing I want to add to that, that I talked about a lot is like adding testimonials and stuff to your Instagram. They're not going to do well, y'all. They are not going to do well. If they do, fucking congrats, an anomaly. But if you put a testimonial of your client up on your feed, it might get 15 likes. But it is there for people to binge when they're ready to binge it. It's more of a portfolio builder than anything, right? So it's also okay to have a different intention for a post.
Your intention can be informative versus going viral. You know, all of these things can have different intentions. You might have just like a fun post, you might have inspirational posts, you might have a “get my offer out there and get hired intention” for a post. But it's just as important to have all those building blocks for people to land on and binge for sure.
Jamie, what is the marketing ecosystem? What does that look like?
Jamie: I have a follow-up on what you just said.
Diana: Sure.
Jamie: I think there's something a little bit misconstrued. That viral posts create, convert clients. So whenever I'm talking about this with, especially in my marketing mastery group, where I was within the content strategy, I'll talk about like meal versus candy content. And a testimonial takes a second to digest, like people have to be interested, they have to get into it.
If they only see your testimonials and that's all you're posting up, they may not really get to know you. So if you decide to put out some candy, some fun posts, some of the being able to talk about who you are, some quick tips and tricks, a reel that's got a nice Schitt’s Creek lip sync, they're gonna start to know you. And then they decide, “Okay, who is this person?”
Then you serve up the meal, you serve up the testimonial, you serve up the sales posts because they're more likely to see those posts because the algorithm knows that you put stuff up that people like. But also don't compare that to the brand awareness type of posts because they're just not going to get as much feedback.
Because anyone who likes that, they're likely either loyalists, like people who want to buy from you or want to refer you or someone who's been waiting and lurking.
It's like, okay, this testimonial seals the deal that I'm going to click into her website or I'm going to DM her. So it's being able to use a little bit of both. But I think that's the biggest thing. There are people out there with millions of followers who can't turn a profit. Because it's always fun when I get someone who has a ton of followers and they're and they're like, “How do I get people to buy for me?”
It's fun to have that as an example for everyone who's like, “Oh, I need to have this many followers so that my business does well as…” It helps to have more awareness, but you do not have to have this gargantuan community before you can start making money.
Diana: No, for sure. Love it. So good.
Jamie: I love it. Okay, so marketing ecosystem. So this plays into this other idea. So a marketing ecosystem is where you're able to build like an empire of content to get people to trust you. This has everything to do with your free content — your newsletters, it can also be how you structure your offer suite. So how it's tiered in some way so that someone starts to just kind of build their way up.
A marketing ecosystem traditionally is website, email, social, and it creates a pipeline for in that regard. So your social media is your biggest portion of your pipeline. People are on it naturally. You don't need to encourage, people in general are either seeking your kind of information out or the algorithm will push you to the people that are so pseudo-interested in it.
The idea of a marketing ecosystem is using your social to really find your ideal audience, understand who they are. And then once they start to gain trust based off of what you post, you can bring them into an email subscription, which we all know that email can be really supportive and really helpful. It's usually the people that have a higher buy intent that come into your email subscribers.
Then from there, if you can get people hanging out on your site, they have an even higher buying intent. So if you have a blog, videos even, anything that's keeping the SEO function of your website up higher, all of this is going to help someone go, “Oh, I've heard of Diana, where did I hear from her?” People forget. But the fact that for many of my clients, I like to encourage these two social platforms for them to jump on.
They can see the same content in two different places. But they're ready to digest your information over on LinkedIn or they're ready to digest your information in email, or over on Instagram, because you are doing it in different ways and understand the mindset of the user.
Whenever we're talking about a marketing ecosystem, it's simply going, make sure people know you and know what you're about. So that when they're when they see your brand, they know exactly what they're going to get from you. They know exactly why they should trust you.
Diana: Yeah, I love that. I think so many people, especially clients that I work with, which are creative entrepreneurs who don't want to be thinking about this stuff. They just want to paint or make ceramics or design or photograph or teach yoga or whatever. They think, “Okay, hopping on to social platforms. Holy shit, having an email list. Are you kidding me, having a blog? No fucking way. Like, how do I do all of it?”
I think the biggest thing that has helped me digest it is that it can be that same content. And I sort of look at it as almost like, the Russian doll sort of effect, right? Where we have, to me, let's just use my business, my perspective, as an example. I feel really comfortable on Instagram. Like, I will riff, I will get on there organically, intuitively. You kind of can't get rid of me. I might have fucking 35 slides on my story that day, because I'm just like Gemini. Hi! So that turns into an easy thing that I do for my business. It's like second nature.
The content that I pump out there, then gets siphoned over to an email newsletter. We actually, at DDC, have my team look at my Instagram content and go, “Hey, I think what you said this week would be a really good newsletter. Let's flush that out.” So it's like the same content goes on stories, could go on a post, could go on a reel, just in different formats, could go on an email newsletter that's a little bit more fleshed out, could lead to your blog that's even more fleshed out if you really wanted to do that, that kind of thing.
Or it goes on LinkedIn, maybe more as like a text-heavy thing, or Twitter, it’s just like a one-liner. Or TikTok, right? So really, making it that easeful experience of being able to plant the seed once and harvest it everywhere.
Jamie: I love that. I love that. Yeah, I like to call it like your lighthouse channel. Being able to, like, you shine whatever this original content is elsewhere. So being able to know that, you can adjust it. For many peoplem Instagram is their lighthouse channel. That's where the majority of people have started and built their business.
Now when I started my career, people's lighthouse channel was Facebook because that's how they got the majority of their traffic. Some people, depending on the industry, their lighthouse channel was Pinterest. I have a laundry list of clients who love a good blog. So being able to know wherever your highest effort is, it gets to be changed and adjusted depending on the platform.
I think the biggest difference is that, once you know the kind of content that you want to be yours, you want to be known for that represents you, it's going to work in more than one place. If it worked really well on the ‘gram, it's going to likely get a higher open rate. If it worked really well on the ‘gram, my LinkedIn followers are going to get on it too. So being able to know that.
Because you don't have to come up with completely original stuff from channel to channel. But it's even more advantageous for you to pay attention to what's doing really well on one channel and try it a little bit differently on another. Like how many times I would see something work so well on a blog, and I'm like, “Alright, we're going to chop this up into five social posts,” and every single one did well.
It's being able to see that and know that really, what it is, is that people walk into each of these different types of channels with a different mindset. So if someone on the ‘gram, they're going to walk in, want to be entertained, inspired in general, educated. They have— Instagram’s got all the bells and whistles. So it's going to be like that, they're going to see many things, but they may not remember you because they've scrolled through 100 posts that day.
If they see it again over on LinkedIn, like “Oh, I've never seen her post over here. I'm actually, my intent right now is to find support for my business or find support in my health” or whatever it is you might be seeking. But it's the exact same thing with updates, right, small refresh, and upcycles that you can do with your content. They're gonna be like, “Oh, wait, I actually remember this now. I'm ready to make a shift here.”
That's also why LinkedIn ends up having a lot of opportunity for high ticket clients because people walk into it looking for, mostly, to be inspired and to find support. They have that mindset versus the ‘gram can be more of this a lot more warming up to people, a lot more content, trying to entertain and inspire before they're ready to make the purchase.
Diana: Yeah, I love that. I think so simple and also mind-blowing and such a permission slip to make this easy. I would say, you know, it's scary for me to even hear Instagram is on its way out or whatever. I think it's there for the right people. You can still find your clients there. That's maybe where they're hanging out. Other people, that I have clients who have more corporate clients, etc., they might be hanging out more on LinkedIn, you know, TikTok might be the place.
I want to talk about these channels and what your kind of 2023 forecast of social media and marketing is. What are your top predictions?
Jamie: So the biggest thing is that every channel has had its moment. Like I was saying before, Facebook used to be the only place I remember having to convince brands to get on the ‘gram. They're like, “We can't get any traffic.” Like I remember having to like, “If we're on it, we'll get followers, we'll get high awareness if we jump on this early.” Like the early adopter, I'm just telling you, if you ever ready to jump into something, like if you become an early adopter, you're going to reap the benefits for ages.
But TikTok has taken over and it's not just using TikTok. TikTok’s algorithm has messed with everyone's algorithm. So in particular, the top three channels, if I was going from like top to bottom as far as where people are going to get the most reach and most bang for their buck this year, YouTube shorts is number one.
YouTube has a reel, TikTok function, minute-long option that is now going to not only be on YouTube but also going to show up on search. Like it's gonna have its own, it's the best SEO functionality I have currently for subscribers on my mainly only podcast YouTube channel. I get 1000s of views on my YouTube shorts. So it's just this idea that, even to the creator fund over there, is the best around so there's all of that opportunity.
TikTok comes second because, again, it still has a higher virality than others. But this is talking reach, when I'm talking about these things. Instagram is third. Facebook is coming back, like back with a wink. They're giving some prioritization to business pages so we'll see. And Pinterest is still hanging out at fifth because they're gonna, there's a very qualified rumor that they're about to add links to their stories, their pin stories, so like being able to click into those things.
It's just that for the longest time, Instagram was the top, you didn't have to do anything else. Like there was nowhere else you needed to be. But as far as I think it's going to be the war of short-form content all year. So I've been, not only able to embrace whatever your video style is, you're going to do fantastic. But also learning how to repurpose all these things.
Because when I say all of that, like Instagram, Instagram, YouTube shorts, and TikTok, you don't have to have a drastically different content strategy. It's more about knowing what plays well. Like, if just to give— for instance, Instagram is still a curated place. So if you want to do some montages, day in the lives, inspiring type of content, you'll see those are doing really well on reels.
YouTube shorts, bring in the tips, tell us all about how you learned a lesson from your story. And TikTok is the most informal place. But being able to know that that's where it's headed, so if you can embrace it, you're only going to get better across the others. Now, LinkedIn is still fantastic.
LinkedIn is something that gives a lot of shelf life for really little effort, like two posts a week can do really well over there. But that is for my words, people. Like if you miss that you can't write these long captions, hang out on LinkedIn. You’re gonna love every minute of it. And then Twitter is on its way out. Sorry, Elon Musk. He's just…
Diana: What's happening over there? It's weird.
Jamie: Like, it's well, you know, aside from getting into the political news of it all, like people are just getting banned first expressing themselves. So it doesn't feel like it's a public platform anymore. It's a platform that either helps the person who owns it or not.
Diana: Yeah, wild. As far as like, so interesting about the YouTube shorts. What would you recommend for someone who's just starting out? Who feels really overwhelmed by this? YouTube specifically, would you record like on Zoom, on like an Apple app? What would you recommend? Your phone?
Jamie: I would absolutely say like, record on your phone. YouTube shorts, like I said, is a minute long. If it goes over a minute, it'll automatically show in the long-form content. YouTube shorts, anything under a minute becomes a short. So it's really an easy way of posting it. And it's not looking for this like high high high quality. So you could take a look at every reel you've posted that has some type of tip-driven play, some type of like you talking to camera, that kind of you own the sound.
The trends aren't going to translate over to YouTube shorts, like using trending audios, or trending music. They have a really high top, like low tolerance to like copyright infringement. So anything over 15 seconds, they turn off the music right after. So for anyone who's already been giving tips, who's ready to share pieces of their story, or just show your products and what they do for them like, what they do in like, you do a voiceover it's going to play well over there.
Don't create new content. Just drop all of your best-performing tips in like talking to camera content over on YouTube shorts.
Diana: Right, beautiful. All right, I want to do an example. Can we flesh out an example? So if I'm a ceramicist, which I, not oddly, but also oddly have a lot of ceramicist clients, which is a different mode because you aren't selling necessarily online virtual products. You're selling like real stuff, like physical things, which I've done a lot of brainstorming. I'm such a coach of no blueprints, it doesn't fit everyone. I love working with like such different creative people.
For example, this is an example I use a lot. If we're wanting to do one-to-many in a product suite situation, versus like, “okay, well, I'm making these mugs and I can only price them at $25 or $40. How do I make six figures doing that?” It's like, how do we get creative with one to many?
You could have a ceramics course or a class. You could also make ceramics and rent it out to a wedding venue. So it's one time, but you're renting out again and again and again, those type of things. So I just want to like lay that groundwork. But if we were a ceramicist, a potter, whatever you want to call yourself, and we wanted to create content for the week, and we wanted to do Instagram, blog, email, YouTube, Pinterest, let's just like flesh it out. TikTok. What would that look like? Let's just like, what could that look like?
Jamie: Okay, this is a big test. So, ceramics. So if I was thinking about a piece of content for a ceramicist. One, the thought would be, like showing the process of creating. Creating a mug or, or a vase or a bowl.
Diana: Yeah. Which goes really viral, which I've had clients go viral. That's like ASMR to the max, like people love ceramics porn, first of all.
Jamie: I do too, and there is like a version of, not ASMR, but like when people like slam it, like mess it up on purpose, like people. Why would you do such a thing? But yeah, so playing with that. So while you're creating, think about filming alone. While you're creating it, TikTok and Instagram are going to love seeing the process of it.
You can certainly bring it over to YouTube shorts, but you might want to give a reference of why because that's not, like I said, how are people going to search and find it, especially on YouTube shorts more than other places? So like, what would make somebody want this video to come up in their feed?
It's something to think about so it can, it turns out they’re a workshop person. They can talk, they can use that and put some type of wording over going, “How do I deal with messing up? How do I deal when things don't like, when I lose my…” I don't know ceramics enough.
Diana: My vase collapses after I just spent five hours building it up.
Jamie: Yeah, what do I do when my vase collapses and like that's going to be what people search and find over there versus TikTok that's going to play well, but you can show all, like you can literally all day just show like soothing video. Simply for brand awareness over on TikTok, make it as informal as hell. And then Instagram, be able to just maybe do a montage of each one you did that week, and then show that they're on sale and your stories.
If we're just going with those three platforms first, absolutely. If we're bringing it over to Pinterest, make sure you set up your affiliate links and they can buy directly from within the Pinterest pins. So directly from within the story pins that you have as well. So those like that's going to be a direct buy. For your blog, it’s going to be how can you, like, “Five Ways to Use This Ceramic Bowl” that happens to be on sale this week.
You can literally show it being used and even for many people, how would SEO find your site? Talk about why you're an artisanal, like what created this story, what kind of materials you use, like really the… Especially for YouTube shorts, especially for your website, the thought that needs to happen in your brain is “How would people search and find this first?” So bring it all back.
Brand awareness on the ‘gram and TikTok, play with just showing your process. YouTube, be able to show a little bit of like, how would somebody learn from seeing your process? So how do you work through your sales? Go directly about what the products are about on Pinterest. Again, using the exact same videos, but you tag the products directly within there. And then over on your blog, be able to let people see how they are going to use your product.
Did I miss any? LinkedIn? Yeah, you can literally talk about this is why you've chosen this path in your life. So being able to lean into the purpose of your business all by itself, and still use that same video is going to play really well. It's just adjusting the mindset a little bit.
Diana: So Instagram and Tiktok…
Jamie: That was a test!
Diana: Yeah, no. Not planned. Nothing ever is. So, Instagram and TikTok brand awareness, for the most part. YouTube, how-to informational. Pinterest, more like inspiration to sales. Let's see, LinkedIn, more for thought leadership.
Jamie: Exactly. How is your business changing the world in some way?
Diana: Yeah. Okay. Another curveball: do we need a CTA? When, why, and how?
Jamie: When, why, and how?
Diana: Yes, and what is the CTA?
Jamie: So a CTA is a call to action. So here's the thing — we are going to use this a couple of times even thinking about it with what we've chatted about already. Think about how many times, how many posts you've just seen today? Can you remember every single post you went by? Can you remember every single brand you interacted with?
Diana: Nope.
Jamie: So one thing that sucks or is great, whatever, about social media is that we scroll, like we scroll all damn day. And if we are not told how we can interact with it, we won't. So it's not being lazy. It's not that people are stupid, none of these things. It's just like if we want to train people to interact with us, tell them exactly how to do that, and make it as easy as possible. So, I would say in the past, I would have said the CTA comes at the end of your post, end of your caption specifically.
When it comes to the captions on TikTok, on Pinterest, on Instagram, first thing, make sure your hook is also a CTA in some way. Most people are not reading the full captions so how can you use whatever it is to make sure that it absolutely gets someone to comment or interact with it in some way? So training someone means this is how, this is the lowest barrier of entry I can get for someone to start to interact with my brands and make it as simple as possible.
One thing that people mess up with this is that they ask really big questions, or they tell us to ask like a life story. And like, get out of here. Like, “How do you deal with failure?” Like, think about like, we see that in someone's post, like, yeah, it'd be lovely, it'd be a great conversation starter. But am I gonna stop between all of the trends to answer that question?
The way to ask it is like, what's one lesson you've learned from failure? And that's just going to lower it a little bit? If you're asking someone to go to your LinkedIn bio or to buy from you or to DM from you, and if that's your priority, that's also the first CTA. So making sure that you ask that stuff right from the get-go.
Now, as far as videos are concerned, you want to get the CTA to be in two places: within the first 10 seconds if it's a long video, and again at the end. But according to a lot of data, you want to be careful. On Tiktok and Instagram, specifically, if you're pushing LinkedIn bio, early on, there's a lot of data where they're looking for those words because they want to keep people on the platform. So you're going to get a little less reach if you're pushing “link in bio” only in general on both of those channels.
For any of my TikTokers, you've probably heard people saying like “bink in lio” and using the chain emoji instead of using the “link in bio,” and you just see people trying, but the platform's like, “keep people here or we're gonna give you less reach.”
Diana: Right, gotcha. Yeah, that makes so much sense. So maybe, “message me” or something like that is more, yeah. “DM me the word Ascend if you want the link to apply,” or whatever.
Jamie: Separately from that, too, if you're creating a whole bunch of content around, like, if we're using Ascend as an example, if people are already really engaging with everything you're doing, your pinned post, your highlights, your stories, be as direct as possible about what's going on in your business there instead of what's within the post itself.
Diana: Hmm, love that. Yeah. So, so good. I am guilty of sometimes a little, getting a little existential and being like, “tell me the story of your life in the comments.” So that's such a good reminder. I think some of the best posts that have had the best engagement for me are ones that I say “save this post” right in the first line. But I'm curious, if you say let's keep the Ascend mastermind going as an example, or say they're booking a photoshoot or something like that. How would you say that so directly?
In the first one, it seems like you want to kind of tell a story, maybe you're telling a story of your client who had this big transformation. Do you want to say in the very first line, “Ascend starts this day. Apply in bio. Also, here's this beautiful story I'm about to tell.”
Jamie: Totally, so it's about what's your objective. Or if you've been nurturing people using the kind of content that they would get and receive from your product or your service, yeah, do a direct, “Hey, it's on sale now, there's three spots left.” Like that's going to be a hook all by itself for someone to click in and be like, “okay, when is this gonna happen?” They want the full details. But also if you're creating a story, how can you how can you play directly to what the story is challenging them to be?
If we're using a photo shoot as an example, like, you can say, “Have you ever felt awkward in front of the camera?” and then talking about a client story about how you help them in a mini shoot feel like, get weird, have a lot of fun with it, really be able to not only enjoy the photos that they get but the process of it, and name drop what's happening in the mini shoots, which three spots are available coming soon.
You can keep repeating it indirectly in the caption itself, but still using that top hook to engage somebody to drop in to be like, “wait, I'm interested in this.” They might comment, yes, or they might be like, “okay, I'm already engaged by the fact that I do feel awkward in front of the camera.” Then you can, and this is something I haven't really shared too much of, you can have a double CTA.
Because you can use that first one to get people to comment and interact with you. But if they stick around and stick with you through the whole story, yeah, then sell them there. And at the bottom go like, “If you want to feel less awkward in front of camera, DM me, or comment this word below.” And it's only that you can have to within those more storytelling posts.
Diana: Yeah, yeah, I learned a lot of this stuff years and years ago from like Jenna Kutcher, and I know she's like, she's an OG, like, let's just give her the credit she deserves, whether she's controversial or not. But I love, it's just sometimes super simple. Like she is the epitome of no trust and like letting people in on her life and not just her business.
She actually rarely promotes except, like with Facebook ads and funnels, I think. But she's telling more about her life, her, you know, she went viral, because her husband has the six-pack abs, and she doesn't, and that was the whole thing. And she just shares a lot. But she'll do something as simple as, “Double tap if you agree that we should be feeling more comfortable in our bodies or whatever.”
That's just like asking for that interaction, which is kind of wild that we have to ask for that. But it's true. Like, if you ask for it, you'll probably actually get more of those double taps, right?
Jamie: Absolutely. Absolutely. As followers, we're not wanting to read between the lines. We don't have the energy to stop and read between the lines, like be direct, be clear. But like using zip like, “Double tap if you're ready to embrace your body,” like who doesn't want to double tap that? It's a frickin affirmation. I'll take it every damn day. And I'll support people who are going to help me get there.
The idea of like using those hooks is even like what your brand is about. It's not just like, “Okay, how can I get people to interact with me on this post? I'm like, I want people to know that I'm going to be talking about body positivity on this channel. Doubletap.” They know that that's what it's about. So it's just simplifying, but also, she's using those hooks and those CTAs to show what she's about in the long run.
Diana: Yeah, I think a good challenge, because I know the Pollen listeners love an actual tactical homework exercise is to make a post that starts with a question. Right? “Do you feel XYZ?” What was the one you just said a second ago? Like what's another example? Well, you've been, y'all have been listening. The one we said a second ago.
Jamie: Oh, “have you ever felt awkward in front of the camera?”
Diana: Yes. Do you feel awkward in front of the camera? Have you ever felt lonely as an entrepreneur? Have you ever wanted to— I have a sewer, like a seamstress in my course right now. Have you ever wanted to make your own clothes and be more sustainable in your shopping? Like, that is such a good reminder and it's like the stuff’s so simple, but it's such a good reminder to go back and be like, “Oh yeah, it can be that easy because I think even in the five years of entrepreneurship, I get into these holes of like, what the fuck do I post and how did I used to do this and get so much engagement?”
Now I'm like, I don't know what to do with my hands, you know? So just to have that reminder again, which I also would love for you to talk about your Content Sprints and invite everyone there. That's such a good place to cultivate this motivation. And the one thing I want to touch on before we get there and then get into lightning round is, if you are, and this is the holistic side of both Jamie and I's coaching business, but especially Jamie because she has that holistic certification and even in wellness and food and I think it transpires, transmutes into both of those places, if you are not posting at all anywhere, do not just all of a sudden think you have to post on five different channels.
Start small, start incremental. Post one time a week on Instagram, show up on stories and see how that feels. Don't shock your nervous system just because we're telling you you have to be on all five channels. So I would love your thoughts on that.
Jamie: Yeah, you guys can't see me, but I'm over here like, just like shaking my head, like, oh my gosh, no, no, no, no, no, none of that. But even to like, you know, I want to be very clear, I gave a whole bunch of examples of if you want to use all of the channels, I encourage two. I do not encourage five, like, there's no reason to do them all. I like to teach everyone all the options that they have. And then I want you to trust yourself to go, “these are the ones I'm going for” and just go for those.
But I think the biggest thing is that marketing your business is a habit. You've never done this before. So this idea that, “Okay, I'm an entrepreneur, I've never showed up in the way that I'm supposed to, I'm just going to figure it out right now and post everywhere and do all these things.” It's like saying, “I'm gonna go to CrossFit this week, I'm going to also do strength training, go to run five miles, I'm going to meal prep all of my meals, I'm going to just do everything.” Like yeah, maybe you can handle it for a week. But you're going to be like, “Fuck this shit,” after a while.
At the very base level is, how can you start small incremental steps? Atomic habits, it's going to come in every single time, like, how can you- think about what is the small way to get started, and you will be rewarded for that. Every single algorithm takes into account the activity of the user. So if right now you're going, “Okay, it's time, I'm gonna get on the gram, I'm ready to do it.” Choose something that you can hit. So if it's, if it's twice a week, if it's one time a week, great.
You're gonna hear all the gurus say, seven times a week and do it this many times, and blah, blah. They're not paying attention to how we grow as humans, which is why I love having the health side of it. And really understanding behavior here is going, “Okay, if you do it twice a week, and you do that every week, the algorithm is going to continue to give you more reach and know who is looking and seeking you out.”
Versus if we see you five times a week, and then we're it's crickets for weeks on end, which, for me, the biggest thing is, it's consistency over intensity. Don't try to be so intense about these goals, be able to say, “I know that if this month, I hit one time a week. Maybe I hit one and a half times a week next month. And I'm only going to grow from this because this is a long game.”
I think there's a lot of overnight success, people believe that's true. It's not. It's about how can you break out of your comfort zone a little piece at a time so that people get to know who you are. And right now, that's one time a week is going to pay off much more than zero times and we don't see you for months.
Diana: Yeah, yeah, I love that, such a permission slip. So don't freak out your nervous system. Don't try to do it all just start, just start. That's it; one step in front of the other. Don't look at step 22 when you're on step five, like absolutely not worth it.
Jamie: So the biggest thing to take from it is that there's so much opportunity. Get excited about the level of opportunity there is and instead of trying to eat the whole buffet table, let's just go for the things that you're ready to taste and let's see what see what you like and then you'll be able to go the go bag whenever you're you've developed that habit.
Diana: Yeah, all I can picture is Golden Corral.
Jamie: I’m from the Midwest, I'm thinking Ponderosa. Ponderosa was like a fun family thing. But yeah, Ponderosa.
Diana: Please share this episode and tell us if you had a hometown buffet in your town. Thanks. That's what we want. Okay, great. Beautiful. Okay, Jamie, what do you have coming up? Tell us about the Content Sprints. How can we connect with you? How can we tap into your community?
Jamie: Oh my gosh, okay, so the Content Sprints is my membership community, which is where we meet twice. We have the opportunity to meet with me or my support coach twice on Wednesday. So there's a 10am and 2:30pm. It’s a workshop where you get to plan and create 30 days of content within two and a half hours. So the idea is creating a sacred space so that you actually create, and if you get stuck, you either have me or a room of entrepreneurs that's ready to answer you in the chat. So that's the basics of it.
Now I throw in some brain boosting activities. I throw in themes all the time of how to get yourself revved up to go but that is, the Sprint's are almost every Wednesday in general you can always find it on my Instagram from there. Right now I'm about to get into my next round of marketing mastery, which is building that marketing ecosystem. This next round is going to be so deep about offer suites and launching and video content because it's such a such a big deal this year so I'm really freaking pumped about it.
That is my business activation program that I was going to drop because I know we talked a lot about launching and figuring these things out. I gave Diana an opportunity to share with you guys my launch checklist. So if you're looking for a way to think about how to build that marketing ecosystem, there's a whole workbook and 30-minute training, where you can just take a look at exactly how to do those things.
Diana: Amazing. I love it. Definitely go to a Sprint. It's also such a great way to tap into just a network of amazing entrepreneurs who are in the same boat. You get so much done, it's like a co working, like it's not an extra thing on your time line. It's like an accountability you should be doing this anyway. Now you get to do it with a group and an expert, which is Jamie or Nicolette in the room.
I can't recommend those enough. I would be going to them if my timezone worked for them. When I'm back in the timezone that I should be in or quote unquote, should be in, I'll probably be back. But I can't recommend them enough. And definitely check out her Marketing Mastery. Let's leave the people with your astrology because we haven't even gotten there.
Jamie: Oh my gosh, why did it take us this long?
Diana: I know. Sun, moon, and rising. And it's fun because maybe they get to guess you know, while they're listening.
Jamie: So I am a Gemini sun, a Capricorn moon, and I am a Cancer rising, which I found out in the last two years. I thought I was a Sag rising, I'm a cancer rising and I've had to embrace my emotional expression.
Diana: You can hear the pain in your voice when you say it, I remember when you found out you were like, “Oh my god, I'm a Sagittarius rising. This is so cool. They're into adventure and travel and dadadada.” And it's like, “Ah.”
Jamie: I got like an hour or half an hour wrong on my birth time. And it was like, “Oh, like I don't want to be a cancer. I don't want to be emotional.”
Diana: Oh my God, that's good.
Jamie: I’ve been emotional all my life and I just don't want to embrace it.
Diana: Jamie and I are fellow Gemini friends. Most of our friends are Geminis actually. And we all hang out, converse, and create and do all the things together. And we're also both manifesting generators, which is super fun. Yeah, so we're, you can imagine just being on a, you know, a fly on the wall for this conversation, which I'm so glad all of you are listening. Our accountability calls are dynamic, to say the least.
Jamie: We have an agenda, like we have a pseudo agenda, at one time we did, but usually it turns into like, here's peppering of what we talk about, what we talk about today. It's like we talk about anything that's coming to mind.
Diana: Anything and everything. So a lot of people are actually interested in an accountability buddy. And I just want to put out there that the way Jamie and I would structure it if we weren't also catching up as friends etc, etc. is one time a week, we just put on the calendar, we try our best just not to miss it and not to move it even though she's been very patient with my travels and my time zones. But we used to have it like early morning on Friday before any calls, like 7am kind of kind of vibe so that it just is like the first thing out of the gate.
You don't even have to get on Zoom. We always do just a phone call which is so nice because you can like make a matcha, fold your laundry, whatever you need to do and just like, you know, be like an old school 90s human on the telephone. That's great.
Jamie: Calls is the shit.
Diana: Yeah, saying I love them. Yeah.
Jamie: Voicemails are cool, too. Like, yeah.
Diana: Except when you're, we give each other shit for voicemail. Okay, who here listening still has an old voicemail of like, “Hi, you've reached Jamie Ratermann, please leave a detailed message.” Like I do for sure and people make fun of me when I do have, you know, voicemails they're like, “I'm leaving a detailed message for Diana Davis.” Anyway, I bet a lot of people still have an old school voicemail setup.
Jamie: The tradition was leave your name, number, and a brief message. Like that's what you say. But clearly, like caller ID, we know that. We don't need that anymore. We know the phone number and like even to like, when somebody like, you could tell the age of the person who's the voicemails. They're like, “Well, I think you know, my number is 9175555.” But like, like you're like, I have caller ID.
Diana: It's right here, but thank you. Okay, so that's the structure of the account. See, this is how we do it. It's like “and we're off,” squirrel, squirrel. The structure of the accountability call is usually 30 minutes for one person, 30 minutes for the other, and we say what went well, what didn't go well for the week, and what our intentions are for the next week and in anything we want to brainstorm through.
I highly recommend all of you do that for free. It's a free thing, obviously. Just find yourself a buddy, doesn't have to be a best friend. And just start to be accountability buddies with them. Okay, Jamie, now that we know your astrology, quick lightning round for you. You're ready to roll?
Jamie: Ready to go.
Diana: What does creativity mean to you?
Jamie: Creativity is like a beautiful balance of embracing your voice while sharing how you feel life is well lived. I think that's the way I would play with it.
Diana: Wow, that's deep. That's like very philosophical. I love it. How you show life as well lived. A well-lived life. 2023, here we come. I like it. Do you have an entrepreneurship crush?
Jamie: Ah, it's weird. Not exactly. I feel like I'm really obsessed with the way I'm building my entrepreneurship. So like, I'm doing the whole my Matthew McConaughey thing, so five years down the line or something, one of those things, but I feel like I have crushes on creators. Anna Sitar right now on TikTok, obsessed with her. Erin Mae Taylor's YouTube channel is awesome. But Tori Dunlap, she's the first 100k. She's a vibe on everywhere.
Diana: I also have an entrepreneurial crush on Matthew McConaughey right now. I'm obsessed with his talks around green lights and all of that. I've just been like, since you mentioned him. Yeah, he's obviously I mean, I love his rom-com days. First of all, I'm already a fan. And then just have a guy like come in and you know, dish up beautiful, inspirational one-liners. Here for it.
Jamie: I think his audio book has to be worth it.
Diana: Yeah, just his voice. Yeah, of course. Yeah. Okay. What are you reading or listening to, speaking of?
Jamie: In true Gemini form? I'm reading two books. Yes. So Tribes by Seth Godin is on my Audible. I'm on Desire Map by Danielle Laporte, which is great and then Mating in Captivity has finally made it into my subway ebooks.
Diana: A little Esther Perel.
Jamie: I've been hanging out on the MTA lately.
Diana: If you are in a relationship, going through a breakup, a human being at all, please check out Esther Perel. Jamie turned me on to her right in the right time when I was going through my bullshit this year. Oh my god, she's a God's gift to this planet. So check her out for sure. If money time, resources, etc, didn't matter. You could do anything. What would you create just to create?
Jamie: I was thinking about this question. So writing my first book was the first thing that came to mind in a secluded fight in Italy. Like, specifically being a bit of a recluse, I think that would be the ideal. So my first book would be what I'd love to do, to be clear.
Diana: Love that. Love that for you. See, we're holding your goals and desires. We're gonna hold it for you. Everyone listening is going to hold it for you. And we can't wait to read your first book. And I expect some, you know, Italian wine and olive oil to be kind of on the pages, a little dirty, like, give it that Italian vibe.
Jamie: Getting these oil stains all over the page is a heck yes. Someday, someday sooner than I realize I know. It's gonna happen.
Diana: Beautiful. Thank you so much for all your expertise. Jamie, I adore you, obviously. And anybody that gets to plug into your world is so fucking lucky. I love the nerdy side of you, and I'm glad we got to showcase that today. And there's obviously more to come, go follow her on social. All the show notes will be below.
Share this episode. Tell us what you learned. Tell us what you were surprised by. Even maybe share your intentions like, let us hold your goal and desire with you. Like if you're wanting to commit to trying a new platform or posting twice a week on Instagram or showing up more showing your face. We're here to support you. So let us cheer you on. Tag Jamie, tag me, share all the things and we'd love to just come say hi and be in your community.
Jamie: I would love to. Yes, tell me all the things and I will, like on all the platforms, because I enjoy that. I'm that kind of nerd, so please, please love it.
Diana: Beautiful. Thanks for being here, Jamie.
